Comments on: Tennyson and Sharon Olds, Ulysses and Telemachus: a very long post about endurance athletes, independence, and the single body alone in the universe against its own best time http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/ Author, Speaker, Professor, Shattering Gender Myths Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:08:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21805 Hugo Schwyzer Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:56:37 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21805 Hurrah, Juancho! Hurrah, Juancho!

]]> By: Juancho http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21804 Juancho Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:11:49 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21804 I read the whole thing, for the record. I read the whole thing, for the record.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21803 Hugo Schwyzer Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:50:07 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21803 That's fair, sophonisba. I was thinking of my father's particularly tender acceptance of his diagnosis, and extrapolating from that to all the Telamachi... That’s fair, sophonisba. I was thinking of my father’s particularly tender acceptance of his diagnosis, and extrapolating from that to all the Telamachi…

]]> By: sophonisba http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21802 sophonisba Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:35:17 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21802 It strikes me that this Odysseus/Telemachus distinction you're dealing with looks an awful lot like the Mary/Martha problem, which you've also posted about, but to very different effect. <i>Those with the spirit of Telemachus have an easier time letting go. They give up the bicycle, the running shoes, the car keys. They may mourn the loss of their independence, but they haven’t staked their identity to their autonomy the way those with the spirit of Ulysses have.</i> I would caution you, if I may, against assuming that all of those stuck in the Telemachus/Martha roles have the attendant, appropriate 'spirits'. It can be tolerable to do the unglamorous, daily, necessary, self-denying work, knowing you're one of the people who makes the world turn, but it's a lot harder to go on with a smile on your face when people who have the Ulysses-freedom you don't talk as though you must not suffer the way they would from losing it -- after all, just look at you, not complaining, so it must not be as hard for you. That breeds unimaginable resentment in the hearts of those Telemachus-Marthas stuck by circumstance or obligation in the 'sphere of common duties'. It's a role as often as it is a personality type. It strikes me that this Odysseus/Telemachus distinction you’re dealing with looks an awful lot like the Mary/Martha problem, which you’ve also posted about, but to very different effect.

Those with the spirit of Telemachus have an easier time letting go. They give up the bicycle, the running shoes, the car keys. They may mourn the loss of their independence, but they haven’t staked their identity to their autonomy the way those with the spirit of Ulysses have.

I would caution you, if I may, against assuming that all of those stuck in the Telemachus/Martha roles have the attendant, appropriate ‘spirits’. It can be tolerable to do the unglamorous, daily, necessary, self-denying work, knowing you’re one of the people who makes the world turn, but it’s a lot harder to go on with a smile on your face when people who have the Ulysses-freedom you don’t talk as though you must not suffer the way they would from losing it — after all, just look at you, not complaining, so it must not be as hard for you. That breeds unimaginable resentment in the hearts of those Telemachus-Marthas stuck by circumstance or obligation in the ‘sphere of common duties’. It’s a role as often as it is a personality type.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21801 Hugo Schwyzer Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:09:36 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21801 I think this post is so long, Carla, most folks didn't read it! Becoming a Christian certainly forced me to become a Telemachus. It's not an easy thing, learning to channel that raging desire to "drink life to the lees" into something more altruistic. I think this post is so long, Carla, most folks didn’t read it!

Becoming a Christian certainly forced me to become a Telemachus. It’s not an easy thing, learning to channel that raging desire to “drink life to the lees” into something more altruistic.

]]> By: carlaviii http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21800 carlaviii Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:18:34 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/03/19/tennyson-and-sharon-olds-ulysses-and-telemachus-a-very-long-post-about-endurance-athletes-independence-and-the-single-body-alone-in-the-universe-against-its-own-best-time/#comment-21800 (wow, I'm first?) My father had a heart attack (a mild one) over a year ago and spent a few days in the hospital for a double bypass. He's a gentle soul, a quiet man, has never been an athelete, and he did not take to ICU life very well. I imagine I won't, either. There's no inner Telemachus here, and it doesn't run in the family. (Though it's an interesting question of how nature and nurture affect both Ulysses and Telemachus.) (wow, I’m first?)

My father had a heart attack (a mild one) over a year ago and spent a few days in the hospital for a double bypass. He’s a gentle soul, a quiet man, has never been an athelete, and he did not take to ICU life very well.

I imagine I won’t, either. There’s no inner Telemachus here, and it doesn’t run in the family. (Though it’s an interesting question of how nature and nurture affect both Ulysses and Telemachus.)

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