Comments on: Dobson versus Robertson, the Giuliani endorsement, and the split over the End Times — a brief post with a long title http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/ Author, Speaker, Professor, Shattering Gender Myths Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:08:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20185 Hugo Schwyzer Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:05:49 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20185 Thanks for the link, Steve. John, if Mitt Romney emerges as the nominee, I'll blog about it. But I have no intention of actually supporting him in the primary or the general, so his sins against pets -- while apparently egregious -- are not particularly noteworthy. Such petty, idiotic cruelty is all too common -- witness LBJ pulling his beagles' ears. Thanks for the link, Steve.

John, if Mitt Romney emerges as the nominee, I’ll blog about it. But I have no intention of actually supporting him in the primary or the general, so his sins against pets — while apparently egregious — are not particularly noteworthy. Such petty, idiotic cruelty is all too common — witness LBJ pulling his beagles’ ears.

]]> By: Steve http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20184 Steve Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:21:27 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20184 Hugo, I don't know if you've read Jim Wallis' take on Robertson's stand - http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2007/11/robertson-for-rudy-by-jim-wall.html - he seems to suggest that it's actually more that he thinks Rudy can win, and his greedy need for a Republican fiscal agenda outweighs his professed concerns about same sex union and abortion. Iteresting reading for sure. I can't make a call on it, as I find almost everything I've ever heard Robertson come out with so utterly loathsome that to try and understand his motives with something like these seems foolhardy... I'm sure those who live closer and with more engagement with that culture will find it easier, and I'll keep reading what you lovelies have to say about it! :o) Sxx Hugo,

I don’t know if you’ve read Jim Wallis’ take on Robertson’s stand – http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2007/11/robertson-for-rudy-by-jim-wall.html – he seems to suggest that it’s actually more that he thinks Rudy can win, and his greedy need for a Republican fiscal agenda outweighs his professed concerns about same sex union and abortion.

Iteresting reading for sure. I can’t make a call on it, as I find almost everything I’ve ever heard Robertson come out with so utterly loathsome that to try and understand his motives with something like these seems foolhardy… I’m sure those who live closer and with more engagement with that culture will find it easier, and I’ll keep reading what you lovelies have to say about it! :o )

Sxx

]]> By: Sertorius http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20183 Sertorius Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:52:40 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20183 Hugo -- in the GOP??? Surely the end times are here! <I>Julie, I hear you — but that attitude got us Ralph Nader’s 90,000 Florida votes. After 2000, I swore I would never again third-party it in a close election. If the right wants to repeat the left’s 2000 error in 2008, they’re welcome to it. </I> Once again, the argument is for the evil of two lessers. Hugo — in the GOP??? Surely the end times are here!

Julie, I hear you — but that attitude got us Ralph Nader’s 90,000 Florida votes. After 2000, I swore I would never again third-party it in a close election. If the right wants to repeat the left’s 2000 error in 2008, they’re welcome to it.

Once again, the argument is for the evil of two lessers.

]]> By: John Spragge http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20182 John Spragge Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:57:10 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20182 Hugo, I really find it surprising that you can get past Mitt's dog carrier on the car roof. Do you not believe it happened (I didn't see it myself, so I can hardly speak to that), or not believe it matters (I doubt that, given your concern for animals)? As for end times theology: I find this stuff interesting, precisely because I can't help seeing, in some of the "Christian Zionist" and end-time foreign policy games, a deeply mistaken attempt to impose a human agenda on the Creator. If the omnipotent Creator of the universe, the great Alpha and Omega, decides the right time has come to make an end, anything we do will hardly make a difference, and if the Creator decides not to make an end just yet, does anyone really believe we can hurry things up by starting a war? I don't fear what these people may do half as much as I fear the implications of what they think-- for themselves and other believing souls. Hugo, I really find it surprising that you can get past Mitt’s dog carrier on the car roof. Do you not believe it happened (I didn’t see it myself, so I can hardly speak to that), or not believe it matters (I doubt that, given your concern for animals)?

As for end times theology: I find this stuff interesting, precisely because I can’t help seeing, in some of the “Christian Zionist” and end-time foreign policy games, a deeply mistaken attempt to impose a human agenda on the Creator. If the omnipotent Creator of the universe, the great Alpha and Omega, decides the right time has come to make an end, anything we do will hardly make a difference, and if the Creator decides not to make an end just yet, does anyone really believe we can hurry things up by starting a war? I don’t fear what these people may do half as much as I fear the implications of what they think– for themselves and other believing souls.

]]> By: Xrlq http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20181 Xrlq Sun, 11 Nov 2007 23:34:04 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20181 <blockquote>Mercy, I became a Republican because I want to help restore ... the ethos of Pete McCloskey,</blockquote> Would that be Pete <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1148586619.shtml" rel="nofollow">so-called holocaust</a> McCloskey? Why on earth would anyone want to restore this rubbish to any major (or, for that matter, minor) political party? Acer, no, "we" can't stop saying Giuiliani is pro-choice simply because he (supposedly) wants to appoint strict constructionists to the bench. Just because an abortion rights advocate actually takes the time to read the Constitution and figure out it doesn't say anything about abortion, that doesn't mean he's anti-abortion any more than it make him pro-abortion. By your logic, I must be pro-90%-rate-income-tax, since I can't find anything in the Constitution prohibiting that, either.

Mercy, I became a Republican because I want to help restore … the ethos of Pete McCloskey,

Would that be Pete so-called holocaust McCloskey? Why on earth would anyone want to restore this rubbish to any major (or, for that matter, minor) political party?

Acer, no, “we” can’t stop saying Giuiliani is pro-choice simply because he (supposedly) wants to appoint strict constructionists to the bench. Just because an abortion rights advocate actually takes the time to read the Constitution and figure out it doesn’t say anything about abortion, that doesn’t mean he’s anti-abortion any more than it make him pro-abortion. By your logic, I must be pro-90%-rate-income-tax, since I can’t find anything in the Constitution prohibiting that, either.

]]> By: Acer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20180 Acer Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:32:32 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20180 Can we please stop saying that Rudy is pro-choice? The guy has said he's going to nominate 'strict constructionist' Alito-type justices. He's pro-choice in the same way that Romney is pro-gay, or in the same way that Obama is pro-life, for that matter. It doesn't matter if he'd give his daughter money for an abortion; it matters what he's going to do with the abortion issue in the public sphere. And it's not looking promising. Can we please stop saying that Rudy is pro-choice? The guy has said he’s going to nominate ‘strict constructionist’ Alito-type justices. He’s pro-choice in the same way that Romney is pro-gay, or in the same way that Obama is pro-life, for that matter.

It doesn’t matter if he’d give his daughter money for an abortion; it matters what he’s going to do with the abortion issue in the public sphere. And it’s not looking promising.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20179 Hugo Schwyzer Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:50:52 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20179 Mercy, I became a Republican because I want to help restore a certain ethos to the GOP -- an ethos that my family knew, the ethos of Pete McCloskey, the ethos of Millicent Fenwick. I want to help -- and I'm giving money to Republicans for Environmental Protection to this end -- bring back a conservationist ethic to the conservative movement. If Mitt Romney were running for president in 2008 on his 1994 senate platform, he might get my vote. But bottom line, real change comes when you build consensus, and I want to see consensus on environmental issues (the most important and dearest to me). And I've voted for Republicans in general elections before, most recently when I cast my ballot in the 2006 state insurance commissioner's race. Mercy, I became a Republican because I want to help restore a certain ethos to the GOP — an ethos that my family knew, the ethos of Pete McCloskey, the ethos of Millicent Fenwick. I want to help — and I’m giving money to Republicans for Environmental Protection to this end — bring back a conservationist ethic to the conservative movement.

If Mitt Romney were running for president in 2008 on his 1994 senate platform, he might get my vote. But bottom line, real change comes when you build consensus, and I want to see consensus on environmental issues (the most important and dearest to me). And I’ve voted for Republicans in general elections before, most recently when I cast my ballot in the 2006 state insurance commissioner’s race.

]]> By: mercy http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20178 mercy Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:38:34 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20178 I've been thinking about your tactical maneuver. The more I think about it the more I believe it is a Machiavellian move on your part....Isn't the point of voting in an election to vote for your favorite candidate? You are actually going so far as to change parties for the primary in order to vote for someone you have no feelings for.....isn't this a bit disingenuous. Think about it, you are not voting for your favorite candidate in the primary because you think she has it in "the bag." Right? .....So what if she doesn't have it in the bag?....What if the polls are wrong? This means you neglected to vote for your candidate, not to vote for someone you believe in, but to lessen someone elses chances! Machiavellian.......for sure! I’ve been thinking about your tactical maneuver. The more I think about it the more I believe it is a Machiavellian move on your part….Isn’t the point of voting in an election to vote for your favorite candidate? You are actually going so far as to change parties for the primary in order to vote for someone you have no feelings for…..isn’t this a bit disingenuous. Think about it, you are not voting for your favorite candidate in the primary because you think she has it in “the bag.” Right? …..So what if she doesn’t have it in the bag?….What if the polls are wrong? This means you neglected to vote for your candidate, not to vote for someone you believe in, but to lessen someone elses chances!

Machiavellian…….for sure!

]]> By: Susan http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20177 Susan Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:59:23 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20177 Wow, this is the first explanation of the endorsement that made any sense to me. As someone who grew up in a church that believes very closely to Robertson, you would think it would occur to me. The theological debate surrounding the end times is a fascinating one, especially the pre vs post millenarians. Wow, this is the first explanation of the endorsement that made any sense to me. As someone who grew up in a church that believes very closely to Robertson, you would think it would occur to me.

The theological debate surrounding the end times is a fascinating one, especially the pre vs post millenarians.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20176 Hugo Schwyzer Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:57:15 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/08/dobson-versus-robertson-the-giuliani-endorsement-and-the-split-over-the-end-times-a-brief-post-with-a-long-title/#comment-20176 Julie, I hear you -- but that attitude got us Ralph Nader's 90,000 Florida votes. After 2000, I swore I would never again third-party it in a close election. If the right wants to repeat the left's 2000 error in 2008, they're welcome to it. I'm not a great believer in letting the best be the enemy of the good enough. Julie, I hear you — but that attitude got us Ralph Nader’s 90,000 Florida votes. After 2000, I swore I would never again third-party it in a close election. If the right wants to repeat the left’s 2000 error in 2008, they’re welcome to it.

I’m not a great believer in letting the best be the enemy of the good enough.

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