Comments on: “A B can mean many things”: lamenting the absence of the plus/minus grading option http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/ Author, Speaker, Professor, Shattering Gender Myths Sun, 20 May 2012 00:23:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jessica http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54640 Jessica Thu, 12 Jun 2008 04:30:32 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54640 The plus/minus system as implemented at many universities needs to be modified. I feel that A+s should be rewarded more than an A if A-s are penalized. Also I think it would be best for the majority of colleges and universities to pick the same grading system, whether it be traditional or plus/minus, so that no unintended advantages/disadvantages exist when employers or graduate schools examine student GPAs from several institutions. The plus/minus system as implemented at many universities needs to be modified. I feel that A+s should be rewarded more than an A if A-s are penalized. Also I think it would be best for the majority of colleges and universities to pick the same grading system, whether it be traditional or plus/minus, so that no unintended advantages/disadvantages exist when employers or graduate schools examine student GPAs from several institutions.

]]> By: mythago http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54639 mythago Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:49:51 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54639 <I>I think psychologically, there’s a sense that a “C” is in some sense a “disappointing grade” and an “A” rewards genuine excellence.</I> Which is the real problem, not the lack of pluses or minuses; with that mentality the B is still a very wide category, since a C+ is just "disappointing but you made the exta effort". I think psychologically, there’s a sense that a “C” is in some sense a “disappointing grade” and an “A” rewards genuine excellence.

Which is the real problem, not the lack of pluses or minuses; with that mentality the B is still a very wide category, since a C+ is just “disappointing but you made the exta effort”.

]]> By: djw http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54638 djw Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:08:20 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54638 And Tam, what a bizarre objection your Dean had. It's easy, just say C is lowest grade to count toward credit in majors and for requirements. Plenty of schools have that rule (UW set the cut-off at 2.0, so technically a 1.9, while a C, couldn't count toward major credit). Two grades I never gave on that system were 1.9 and 3.9. The former I considered a C, so I just called it a 2.0. The latter I figured at every other school, this student gets a 4.0, and "an A is an A" of something like that. And Tam, what a bizarre objection your Dean had. It’s easy, just say C is lowest grade to count toward credit in majors and for requirements. Plenty of schools have that rule (UW set the cut-off at 2.0, so technically a 1.9, while a C, couldn’t count toward major credit).

Two grades I never gave on that system were 1.9 and 3.9. The former I considered a C, so I just called it a 2.0. The latter I figured at every other school, this student gets a 4.0, and “an A is an A” of something like that.

]]> By: djw http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54637 djw Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:03:46 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54637 UW has the opposite problem. Every GPA tenth from .7 (D-) to 4.0 is a possible grade. So while you've been lamenting the lack of precision, I've been staring at papers thinking "I'm pretty sure this deserves a B+ but is it a 3.2, 3.3 or 3.4?" I now teach at a school with plusses and minuses and I think that's the right amount of precision. UW has the opposite problem. Every GPA tenth from .7 (D-) to 4.0 is a possible grade.

So while you’ve been lamenting the lack of precision, I’ve been staring at papers thinking “I’m pretty sure this deserves a B+ but is it a 3.2, 3.3 or 3.4?”

I now teach at a school with plusses and minuses and I think that’s the right amount of precision.

]]> By: jennyfields http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54636 jennyfields Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:40:39 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54636 My college has recently adopted the full +/- system. Before, there had been minus grades, no pluses, and an A was simply an A. It was rather confusing. The faculty and administration were pretty unanimous about this decision, but the student government fought tooth and nail about it. They used the same "it will make our grades lower" argument and invoked the GPA requirement for the state scholarship that a large number of the students were there on. I was reading all this and was a little embarrassed for two reasons. First, as with the student you mentioned, it really means that students perceive this change as having to work harder to receive the grades they're already getting. It's the desire to get more while doing less, at any cost, that bothers me. Second, all the arguments I read in the paper did not worry about the A being divided between A- and A. It was about the B- becoming a C+. Sigh. It's funny because the day they announced in the paper that the system had been passed was the day before Thanksgiving break, while half the school had already left. Sneaky. Maybe now that the "A" is going to be more sacred, it will be that much more rewarding when I get one :-) My college has recently adopted the full +/- system. Before, there had been minus grades, no pluses, and an A was simply an A. It was rather confusing. The faculty and administration were pretty unanimous about this decision, but the student government fought tooth and nail about it. They used the same “it will make our grades lower” argument and invoked the GPA requirement for the state scholarship that a large number of the students were there on. I was reading all this and was a little embarrassed for two reasons.

First, as with the student you mentioned, it really means that students perceive this change as having to work harder to receive the grades they’re already getting. It’s the desire to get more while doing less, at any cost, that bothers me.

Second, all the arguments I read in the paper did not worry about the A being divided between A- and A. It was about the B- becoming a C+. Sigh.

It’s funny because the day they announced in the paper that the system had been passed was the day before Thanksgiving break, while half the school had already left. Sneaky.

Maybe now that the “A” is going to be more sacred, it will be that much more rewarding when I get one :-)

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54635 Hugo Schwyzer Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:34:57 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54635 Mythago, it's funny how the B ends up being the widest category. I have a stronger sense of what a C is and what an A is, whereas the B compartment just seems so much more flexible. I think psychologically, there's a sense that a "C" is in some sense a "disappointing grade" and an "A" rewards genuine excellence. It's a sign of grade inflation that B has become so broad a category, no doubt. Mythago, it’s funny how the B ends up being the widest category. I have a stronger sense of what a C is and what an A is, whereas the B compartment just seems so much more flexible.

I think psychologically, there’s a sense that a “C” is in some sense a “disappointing grade” and an “A” rewards genuine excellence. It’s a sign of grade inflation that B has become so broad a category, no doubt.

]]> By: plunky http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54634 plunky Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:31:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54634 Where I went to school...only a handful of people graduate with 4.0's (2 for one year, for example, with 3000ish in the college). If you compare my GPA against someone who went to a school with grade inflation, it doesn't look so good. But I'm proud of it, because you had to fight for good grades. We did have -'s and +'s though. Where I went to school…only a handful of people graduate with 4.0′s (2 for one year, for example, with 3000ish in the college). If you compare my GPA against someone who went to a school with grade inflation, it doesn’t look so good. But I’m proud of it, because you had to fight for good grades. We did have -’s and +’s though.

]]> By: mythago http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54633 mythago Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:52:49 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54633 <I>At my original alma mater, an A+ was worth 4.33 points, an A- worth 3.67, and so on. I thought it was a good system.</I> It's a good system for the hypercompetitive to distinguish themselves and fight over. Instead of a mere A, there's the coveted A+. Hell, why not add A++? I'm not really getting why an A is different than a B in terms of width. Isn't a C average, B above average and A excellent? At my original alma mater, an A+ was worth 4.33 points, an A- worth 3.67, and so on. I thought it was a good system.

It’s a good system for the hypercompetitive to distinguish themselves and fight over. Instead of a mere A, there’s the coveted A+. Hell, why not add A++?

I’m not really getting why an A is different than a B in terms of width. Isn’t a C average, B above average and A excellent?

]]> By: Xrlq http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54632 Xrlq Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:46:21 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54632 <blockquote>Because I have so few final grade options, and because my students turn in such a wide range of work, A “B” from me, frankly, means a wide range of things and describes a range of abilities. And that’s not right.</blockquote> At that granular a level, probably not. But since no one really cares about individual grades so much as the GPA, who cares? A student who consistently does A+ work will get his 4.0 average, while the student who just barely ekes out an A in your class is bound to just barely miss it in another.

Because I have so few final grade options, and because my students turn in such a wide range of work, A “B” from me, frankly, means a wide range of things and describes a range of abilities. And that’s not right.

At that granular a level, probably not. But since no one really cares about individual grades so much as the GPA, who cares? A student who consistently does A+ work will get his 4.0 average, while the student who just barely ekes out an A in your class is bound to just barely miss it in another.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54631 Hugo Schwyzer Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:11:24 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/12/13/a-b-can-mean-many-things-lamenting-the-absence-of-the-plusminus-grading-option/#comment-54631 Indeed, Stentor. One of the things I notice is that I tend to be very zealous about guarding the "sanctity of the A". There's no higher grade that can be given, so to bestow it on anyone who isn't genuinely deserving spoils the work of those who really did earn it. On the other hand, I'm a much easier B and C. If I could give B+s and A-s I would, and students who otherwise get straight Bs would have a significant GPA boost. Indeed, Stentor. One of the things I notice is that I tend to be very zealous about guarding the “sanctity of the A”. There’s no higher grade that can be given, so to bestow it on anyone who isn’t genuinely deserving spoils the work of those who really did earn it. On the other hand, I’m a much easier B and C. If I could give B+s and A-s I would, and students who otherwise get straight Bs would have a significant GPA boost.

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