My wife and I did not know the sex of our child before she was born. Letting the mystery be, and allowing ourselves to be surprised and delighted by either a boy or a girl was part of our plan from the beginning. Frankly, I’m proud of myself for not giving in to the overwhelming temptation to “find out” in advance; the fact that we kept the ultrasounds to the bare minimum helped. My standard answer to the ubiquitous question “So, what are you having?” became “We were really hoping for an eighth chinchilla, but the doctors tell us it’s a human”. Some folks laughed, and others looked confused, and a few — a very few — were genuinely offended by our lack of concern for the sex of our child.
That doesn’t mean, of course, that we don’t care that our daughter is a girl. It’s just that from the perspective of someone who sees a new life as miraculous — and who sees gender as largely a social construct — the idea that my child’s plumbing ought to be the most interesting aspect of her identity seems misplaced. Truth be told, I didn’t care one way or another whether we had a girl or a boy; we wanted, like all parents, a healthy child. Now that that child has been revealed to us as a female, we’re both thrilled to have a daughter. I’m over-the-moon about my baby girl, but no more so than I would be if we had had a son. And I’m utterly mystified by the prospect of anyone feeling otherwise.
My wife and I do talk about having more children. I’m one of four, and she is one of four, so there’s something about that number that has a certain amount of appeal. (This is not the post to debate family size and environmental responsibility, though I will post on that soon.) All things being equal, I’d like to have at least one child of each sex. I’ve spent so many years working with both young men and women; I’d like to have both male and female energy in my home. Good feminist that I am, I recognize that children of either biological sex can manifest both energies! But if I have a household filled with daughters, I will not be heartsick. One daughter is more than enough at the moment. (Parenthetically, again, I note that our girl was born just a couple of hours before those infamous octuplets came into the world about 20 miles away. A feeble attempt at upstaging, I say.)
In a related vein, Kittywampus put up this post on the day my daughter was born: “Reborn” Female? It starts out with a look at the phenomenon of ultra-realistic “newborn” dolls, and notes that the vast majority of those available are female. Kittywampus wonders whether we’re moving into a period of cultural preference for daughters in this country, and whether that is really such a good thing. Noting that at least in America and the industrialized west, we no longer have such an obsession with male heirs, she writes:
While I’m very glad for the shift in attitudes (not to mention the modern awareness that the father’s X or Y determines sex), I’m not at all convinced that a general preference for girls would be a real improvement. For one thing, reversing sexism wouldn’t end it. It would only flip the terms of the inequality. This is structurally the same as the question of whether matriarchy would be superior to patriarchy. As long as one group is lording it over another, it’s not fair or just … not that we’re in any danger of living in a matriarchal society, mind you!
For another thing I suspect that all kinds of rigid assumptions about girls are wrapped around the growing preference for them. Girls are thought to be easier to manage. They’re imagined to be more docile. How is this progress from the tired old stereotypes of female passivity?
Bold emphasis mine. Just in the past week, as folks have congratulated us upon our little girl, and begun to give us a stunning assortment of desperately cute little outfits, I’ve sensed this perception that “girls are easier”. Easier to shop for, easier to control, easier — perhaps — even to love. That’s not my perception, mind you; if I had a baby boy, I cannot imagine adoring him one iota less than I adore my precious daughter. But without being able to articulate exactly what I’m feeling, there does seem to be an “extra” outpouring of delight from many in our social circle that we’ve had a daughter. Recent births in my extended family seem equally balanced between boys and girls, so it’s not as if this is the first female born in a generation. It’s something else.
One of my friends on Facebook sent me a congratulatory message last week, and wrote: “Given how much experience you have mentoring young women, it’s perfect that you’ve had a daughter. You’re the ideal father for a daughter, and I think a girl will be much easier for you than a boy.” I’ve been mulling that for a while, sensing some sort of a back-handed compliment tucked away in there. It’s true that because of what I teach, I’ve had a lot more female than male mentees, though the sex ratio of the youth group kids to whom I’ve remained close is much more equal. But I suppose that there’s a grain of truth in my friend’s note. I’ve been quite clear about how damaged I think our cultural ideals of masculinity are. We make it very difficult in our culture for young men to grow up without horribly twisted messages about women and the world and themselves. I’m confident — or at least hopeful — that when and if I become a father to a son I will be able to present an alternative vision of what it means to be a man. But having a daughter means that at least for the immediate moment, I can role-model a healthy masculine image for her without having to counteract the most pernicious cultural influences upon our sons. We have pernicious cultural influences upon our daughters too, of course — but at least, at least, we are more inclined to give our girls a vocabulary for talking about and fighting back against them in healthy and thoughtful ways.
I know that I love this little girl unconditionally. She is undeniably female, and in a way that I find difficult to articulate, already undeniably feminine. It’s not frailty that makes her so, though all newborns seem frail to first-time parents. Perhaps it’s not there at all, and even my gender-studies trained brain is giving in to the culture and projecting this on to her. But even when she’s diapered, her female-ness is inextricably a part of her. And because she is my child, I love that aspect of her as well. I have no idea whether she will grow up to be a “girly girl” or a “jock” or something else, something wonderful, on the vast spectrum of human possibility. (Of course, playing soccer will be mandatory. All other traits are negotiable.) We’re going to do our best to expose her to as many opportunities as possible, and to as great a degree as we can, offer her the freedom to choose how she wants to live into her femaleness.
But there is no illusion that “girls are easier”.
Funny, in my (anecdotal) experience, boys are said to be far easier than girls. My sister-in-law, for instance, has often mused on how she would probably love a daughter less than a son. However, now that she has two sons, she says she would be “okay” if their third child was a girl. There have been a significant number of women in my acquaintance who have professed a similar dislike for girls. Their main justification is that when young, girls whine more, and when teenagers, there is more anxiety about pregnancy and the threat of violence to them. Ugh.
Although I don’t want children for quite awhile, I have been thinking about what the future of family planning will be with regards to gender. It scares me to think that parents will one day be able to choose the gender of their child, just as they may also be able to select eye color and how high their child’s IQ is. Some people speculate that this will never happen, but scientists are talking about it. I believe medical research should be reserved for improving lives, and not tinkering with things like gender selection. If anything, being able to choose the gender of our children will only play into what you are talking about. People’s preference for certain a certain gender, such as female, will not be out of genuine concern for the child, but will instead reinforce the social ideals for which sex is preferred. I will take what God gives me someday and pray my babies will be healthy.
I just discovered your blog 3 days ago and I’ve been hooked ever since! I love your candor! As a young feminist and women’s studies minor myself, I appreciate a male point of view on women’s issues. How refreshing! When it comes to the article you quoted on a changing preference for daughters instead of sons, I have to disagree with the author. I think, as long as the patriarchal last-naming tradition is in place, men especially, will prefer sons. Also, I think some men view having a son as a kind of sick, weird way of proving their manhood. But I think deep down, most parents would like at least one of each. I have a 2 year old son, and I’d love to some day have a daughter… just so I can experience both worlds.
<blockquotePerhaps it’s not there at all, and even my gender-studies trained brain is giving in to the culture and projecting this on to her.
Bingo. And even being aware of the culture, you will be astounded at how much other people project their gender issues onto babies. When I put my oldest in pink, people cooed about the beautiful little girl; when I put her in blue she got a lot of “Hi, Tiger!” and “He’s a feisty little one, isn’t he?”
Hugo,
I don’t know you beyond what I’ve read on your blog. But based on that, I would have to say that I think raising a girl will be easier for you, maybe not at first, but certainly when sex and gender become relevant. I just imagined how your son would come to you and complain how girls hold all the power in his world and you’d tell him that he’s wromg, that both you and he are actually part of the oppressor class… I’m saying this tongue-in-cheek, I think I know you would be able to deal with that situation more appropriately with your son because you would love him as unconditionally as you love your daughter, of course. But I think your restrictive and overtly negative views of masculinity – masculinities – would make your life as his father and his life as your child more difficult than it will be with and for your daughter.
Sam, I wonder how you’d react if Hugo “tongue in cheek” told you that it’s good you have a baby son, because if you had a daughter, someday she might complain to you that boys have all the power in her world, and you’d react by scolding her for trying to unfairly point men as the oppressor class.
Best of luck on your daughter, Hugo.
Mine is 10 now and will take over the world someday. At least that’s how it seems at the moment.
My wife and I were lucky. We wanted two children and got two. The first time, I wanted a daughter but ended up happy we got a boy. The second time, I wanted a daughter so that we’d have one of each. Again, we got lucky.
I worry more about my son (12) than I do about my daughter. Boys are later at toilet training and that’s just the beginning. More of them are at risk of being learning disabled, disruptive, having ADD — except for anorexia there’s hardly any dysfunctional behavior which isn’t more common among boys. And girls have more options in almost every aspect of life, and do better than boys by every objective measure. So I do think it’s harder for boys.
And girls have more options in almost every aspect of life
Sorry. It’s certainly true that our sexist culture drops a load of crap on boys as well as girls, but the notion that boys have it tough and girls have it easy is cringeworthy. (And don’t get me started about the underdiagnosis of problems like ASDs and ADD in girls.)
It seems to me that much of what we’re seeing today is an explosion of the cottage industry of “boy anxiety” — the days of Reviving Ophelia are long gone, and we’re now obsessed with phtlates in plastic bottles and their effect on baby boys, and about the alienation of young men from schools and so forth. The boy crisis may indeed be real, but danger is not a zero-sum game. The pressures boys face should not allow us to believe that girls have it easier. Given the rates of harrassment and assault, given the pay differentials, given the percentage of women in elected office nationwide, I’d say we’re a hell of a long way from being able to say “girls have more options.”
mythago,
“Sam, I wonder how you’d react if Hugo “tongue in cheek†told you that it’s good you have a baby son, because if you had a daughter, someday she might complain to you that boys have all the power in her world, and you’d react by scolding her for trying to unfairly point men as the oppressor class.”
I said “easier”, not “better”, that’s quite different. How I’d react? I’d think that would be a completely appropriate retort to what I said before. Doesn’t invalidate my statement though.
Look, that’s my story, although it wasn’t my dad. I feel that my personal development has been hampered to not just a small degree by my feminist upbringing, and as much as this has become a part of me when I reflected it (much) later and as much as I admire Hugo for his attempts to challenge traditional notions of masculinity, I can’t deny that I think – purely based upon my reading of the blog for about a year now, and I may be completely wrong – it will be easier for him to raise a girl than it would be to raise a boy as soon as the children’s gender would become socially and behaviorally relevant.
Maybe everything I say is wrong, and even if it isn’t, it’s probably only of marginal importance and maybe everything would be different with his son – but on this blog, when it came to matters of gender interaction, I don’t think Hugo has been particularly concerned with treating male experiences fairly.
Although I have to say that I am impressed by his willingness to reconsider and accept valid criticism – that’s clearly a great trait in a father, and probably far more important for education than any particular politcal views.
The boy crisis may indeed be real
It’s mostly a crisis for Hispanic and African-American boys. And that is very serious. But God forbid we deal with uncomfortable issues of race and class; it’s much easier (and, for people like Gurian and Sax, more profitable) to play on middle-class white anxiety about success.
It never fails to astonish me that a few decades ago, boys were thought to be the logical, mathematically-inclined sex, whereas girls were the one who were no good at “hard” subjects – and now we’re being told that boys are too wild and disorganized to sit down and do a math problem.
I worry for my son, too (there’s nothing like that “why you can’t wear pink socks to school” talk), but my worries are not the same as for his sisters. Among those worries are not G-rated versions of “women have half the money and all of the pussy”.
mythago,
“I worry for my son, too (there’s nothing like that “why you can’t wear pink socks to school†talk), but my worries are not the same as for his sisters. Among those worries are not G-rated versions of “women have half the money and all of the pussyâ€.”
I just bought a toy for a friends child and I made sure its neither pink nor blue. Did you have that not-G-rated talk or is that a hypothetical? If so, why does that worry you? Would you be worried about differences in perception or that he may have a point? How would you deal with it? I think your last sentence explaines perfectly what I meant with “easier” above…
“Given the rates of harrassment and assault, given the pay differentials, given the percentage of women in elected office nationwide. . .”
None of these apply to girls and boys. I’m talking about the actual world of childhood and grade school that young girls and young boys are entering.
Sam, I’m genuinely not following your last post there.
You “jokingly” suggested that Hugo, as a feminist, might respond to a son’s perception of powerlessness by scolding and shaming. Should I, then, assume that if your daughter came to you feeling like being female left her powerless, you as an anti-feminist would react with scorn and a lecture?
If you really think that resentful men who think “the bitches run everything” have a point, I’m not sure if there’s much point in trying to communicate. I learned a long time ago that you can pry a gun out of a life NRA member’s hands more easily than you can pry someone away from the “I’m the REAL victim” story they tell themselves to ignore their own power.
Hugo, I think you’ll bring a gift to raising a child that not specific to boy or girl babies: the ability to think outside of rigid dichotomies. That’s a quality that’s important well beyond gender politics.
It’s interesting that you are, in fact, already getting compliments that imply girls are easier. As the mother of two boys, I obviously haven’t been in your shoes. I *have* occasionally had people tell me – in a tone of commiseration – that boys are harder early on, but girls turn bitchy and overdramatic by puberty. Even when they’re trying to be nice, some folks just can’t seem to ditch the overgeneralizations.
There’s plenty of feminist work to be done in parenting, whether our children are boys or girls. I think you’re going to do just fine.
Sungold (of Kittywampus)
mythago,
hmm, I think we may have a major misunderstanding here.
First of all, I’m really not an anti-feminist, and usually far more feminist than not, despite my personal experience – but I think everyone can feel and even be powerless, even a man. My point was that I think in most cases it’s completely inappropriate to use “the political” for “the personal” which I think is a common feminist tendency.
I’ve never mentioned that “the bitches run everything”, as that’s an obviously ridiculous claim, but as you suggested that something like that (if I understood you correctly) may be a perception you think your son may develop at some point and that you’re worried about this I was wondering what made you think that he may come to this conclusion and how you would react to that…
My husband and I wanted a girl for a few reasons. I had quite a few bad run-ins with teenage boys when I was a teen, and I was afraid that my negative feelings would taint my relationship with a teen son. My husband never bonded with his firstborn son, but did later bond with his daughter from another marriage. We had a son, and now I can’t imagine having any other child than the one we have.
I’m still worried about relating well to my teenage son, but as I have heard from plenty of women, they have problems relating with their teenage daughters. I’ve hear from many women who have had both sons and daughters that sons are ‘easier’ to raise. My boy is so active that watching him sometimes makes me tired. I worry that a school system that highly values compliance may want me to medicate my crazy active boy.
Sam, your point was rather buried in a not-very-joking-at-all suggestion that it’s a good thing Hugo’s baby is a girl, because clearly his feminist politics would lead him to be kind of a crappy father to a boy.
“Half the money and all of the pussy” was a response to your comments about a boy feeling that women have ‘all the power’ in his life. Some people respond to these concerns not with a loving discussion, but with affirmation that carries into adulthood. That’s as unhealthy as scolding and shaming.
I’m not especially worried about my son feeling either overprivileged or ashamed, but then, his dad’s a feminist.
mythago,
again, I said “easier”, not “better”.
I was probably projecting, but this is one thing I’m really worried about when it comes to “feminist education” of boys (due to personal experience): shaming boys for their presumedly aggressive sexuality; to tell them that their desire is somehow inevitably harmful, that their touch is in some sense “toxic”.
That’s just as bad as religious shaming and slut shaming. In the end, I don’t care about intellectual indoctrination, discussions about patriarchy and structural privilege or lectures about marxist philopshy as long as there there is an understanding that it’s ok to be sexually attracted to girls and that it’s ok to express that desire. I needed years to get over my feminist shame. As Naomi Wolf once said – feminism has a lot of words for sexual violence committed by men, but no vocabulary to celebrate it.
“IT” in the last sentence obviously means “sexuality” not “sexual violence”…
None of what I say in this thread (or any other) should take away from my certainty that Hugo will make a very good parent. I disagree with some of his gender views, but he is not into enforcing agendas (a really bad thing for a parent to do) and is self-aware enough to know when he is being unfair or jumping to a conclusion. And having been a youth counselor will be a big big plus.
Sam, there’s nothing about feminism that makes one a perfect human being, and (as you’re well aware) it’s entirely possible to be a feminist and still have issues about sex. That doesn’t mean that thinking of sex as shameful and men as pigs is a ‘feminist’ point of view – that view of men, after all, is the foundation of traditionalists’ ideas of the differences between men and women. If men aren’t animals then women don’t have to civilize them, eh?
As Naomi Wolf once said – feminism has a lot of words for sexual violence committed by men, but no vocabulary to celebrate it.
I’m a little confused here. You think there should be terms celebrating ‘sexual violence committed by men’?
mythago,
obviously, the last sentence was supposed to read
“As Naomi Wolf once said – feminism has a lot of words for sexual violence committed by men, but no vocabulary to celebrate [sexuality with them]”
Sloppy writing seems to be a problem today. Sorry for that. I agree that the idea of “men as pigs” isn’t a feminist invention. However, feminism is, in my perception, the most important proponent and social multiplier of that view today. Traditionalists would like to control perceived male sexual aggression and sociopathy by shaming male sexuality and controlling men through limiting access to female sexuality (by shaming female sexuality), feminists concentrate only on the first part. That may be progress in some sense, but to me it felt like real pain. Just have a look at some progressive feminist site, say, feministing.com, and notice how “sex-positive” posts usually deal with female sexuality and desires, while male sexuality is only dealt with with respect to sexual violence. And they do that while consistently claiming to be advocates of a worldview that doesn’t see men as animals and slaves of their alleged biological imperatives…
Sam, I really think you’re seeing what you choose to see, apparently because you’ve decided all feminists are just like your mom. And I really, truly have no idea what the hell Wolf is talking about, or at least what you think she is talking about. What are the special feminist words for sexual violence committed by men? When were terms like “making love” banned from feminist usage? I’ve checked all of my updated copies of the Feminist Agenda and it’s not on there, but maybe you have a concordance I don’t.
mythago,
“I really think you’re seeing what you choose to see”
That is probably as true with respect to me as it is with respect to anyone, including you. I’m not claiming any particular epistemic privilege.
“apparently because you’ve decided all feminists are just like your mom.”
No, they aren’t. I’ve met a couple of others. They have their own opinions and they clearly aren’t like my mom. But when it comes to feminist education of boys my references are limited, granted.
I think Wolf was commenting on the feminist tendency to focus on sexual violence committed by men while never explicitly mentioning that most sex between men and women is actually about “making love”.
This is not a banned term, but I’ve hardly ever read that word with respect to heterosexuality on a feminist site or in a feminist article or book, possibly except for a writeup of the feminist sex wars in the early 80s… have you?
Yes, Sam, I have. And all kinds of other positive, happy references to sex with men. But you’ve got your agenda; I won’t disturb you any further.
The Bitten Apple,
Yup. This is the logical outcome of the abortion culture, a world in which men and women are free to ‘choose’ whether their baby lives or dies, based on things like their sex or various other genetic characteristics. No slippery slope involved, that future is already here, in China and India, and will soon come to the United States as well. When Judith Jarvis Thomsen and her despicable ilk first argued for abortion to be legalized, there were those who warned that this would be the outcome, and nobody believed them. But they were right.
I don’t expect the pro-choicers to express any remorse over what their creed made possible, though.
mythago,
actually, no – I don’t have an agenda, just baggage. So I’d be grateful for any references that may help me change my point of view. Seriously.
I can see how the “boy crisis” is real, but that seems to only be because our society demands that there be an oppressor/oppressed class. If girls aren’t being oppressed anymore (say in…school or sports), then boys must be the ones being oppressed. Egalitarianism is a very difficult concept for most people to understand and act on.
As for the dolls – I would assume it is because little girls play with dolls more and, thus, they would want baby girl dolls. I saw this in my ex-step daughter who ONLY ever wanted girl dolls. There is also a racial element to dolls as well that is pretty interesting. This American Life did an episode on it – it is worth checking out. I’ll have to get back to you on the name though.
P.S. So many congrats to you Hugo!! I also commend you for not knowing the sex of the child so as not to start the unconscious gender conditioning that is so popular (all pink bedroom, oh my!).
I have no doubt in my mind both you and your wife will be wonderful, doting, and understanding parents. Your daughter is definitely blessed.
Hugo,
I’ve fathered both girls and boys, and from my perspective I can’t say that one is easier than the other. The experience is, however, different. The Kittywampus post you referenced said something else that casts light on my feelings.
“Finally, mothers may hope for a “mini-me,” much as fathers have long hoped for a Junior to carry on the family name and their personal legacy. Such hopes can only be dashed. The burden of a legacy is a heavy one for any baby, whether a boy-child or a girl-child.”
With my son, I seem to feel a greater internal stake in what he becomes, because a tiny part of me still sees him as a reflection of me. What he is says something about me. So tolerance always seemed to come easier with my daughters.
So to me, “easier” or “harder” has very little to do with any intrinsic boy nature or girl nature. I think the essence of parental love is to take joy in the freedom of my child. With my son, I had to work a little harder to prevent anxiety over some selfish “legacy” from tarnishing that joy.
Congratulations Hugo…you are in for a fine adventure.
Just wanted to let you know, impossibly cute outfits are non-gender specific…especially when the kidlets start expressing their own preferences.
(Our granddaughter was gifted a silver studded black leather diaper from friends who 0are…you guessed it…motorcycle enthusiasts.)
I’ve heard it said before that girls are easier until puberty, and then boys are easier. I don’t think it’s true, although it may be for parents who are trying to regulate certain gender roles. In particular, boys often get a lot more freedom as adolescents, and of course it’s easier to deal with a moody teenager when they aren’t in the house.
I’m getting the impression than you think it’s very important to teach people to express their sex – that it is important for your daughter to learn not just how to be an adult, but how to be a woman. Am I understanding you right?
Man, I’m jealous, ahunt. All the leathermen who attended MY first baby shower just got us Pampers and stuff.
Oh, and as long as we’re recommending stuff – Hugo, consignment stores. Babies outgrow stuff so fast that most of it stays in great shape. For new stuff Lands End makes very sturdy baby clothes.
I’m getting the impression than you think it’s very important to teach people to express their sex – that it is important for your daughter to learn not just how to be an adult, but how to be a woman. Am I understanding you right?
No, not at all — I think learning how to present oneself in the world (both within and without one’s accompanying gender identity) is important. For example, was taught early how to tie a necktie and wear cufflinks, traditional male performance. I was not taught how to put on eyeliner. My daughter will certainly learn a wide variety of tasks and tricks — but how she “expresses her sex” is something she will decide, not her parents. We’ll just equip her with tools.
Thanks for all the recommendations, folks!
And Hector, I agree that abortion for the sake of sex selection alone is abhorrent. Remember, I’m not pro-abortion — I’m just staunchly against the criminalization of abortion, and I’m in favor of having it be “safe, legal, and rare.” FYI, South Korea is legendary for aborting girls — and abortion is completely illegal in South Korea. So passing anti-choice legislation does zip to protect the unborn.
“t’s true that because of what I teach, I’ve had a lot more female than male mentees…”
I think the issue, Hugo, is that girls are more likely to seek out male mentors than boys are. And having worked in your office for your officemate, I’ve noticed that your mentees are disproportionately white and pretty. That doesn’t mean that you only choose white girls and pretty girls to mentor. But young women who feel confident about their looks, if not much else, are more likely to seek out a male mentor like you because they are more certain of getting some kind of attention. It’s not just you, it’s part of the dynamic you yourself often blog about. You should blog about this!
I also think you’ll be better with girls. You have a reputation, well-deserved, for being a bit “prickly”, as Eloy has said. You’re pricklier with men than women. Again, this has nothing to do with any sexual intent on your part. I just think you’re harder on men, and you’re obviously so patient with your girl students. Just remember that those who seek you out for mentoring are those who are most confident you will give them the help they want.
“I think learning how to present oneself in the world (both within and without one’s accompanying gender identity) is important.”
This is well put, along with the rest of what Hugo says.
You can’t (and shouldn’t) shelter your kids from the culture they’re growing up in. For the kids to conform to some extent to gender stereotypes is very likely. The stereotypical view is that girls like to have control over people, and boys like to have control over things. I saw this play out with our own two children. For the girl, it started with her Barbies. For our boy, it started with his Thomas the Tank Engine phase. Nowadays the girl is interested in typical girl things, the boy in typical boy things.
This isn’t the end of the world, so long as there is equality in the world they move into as adults. And I don’t think equality is incompatible with a world where girls are into girl things and boys are into boy things. The important thing as a parent is to pay attention to what your child’s wants, preferences, and interests, and support her/him in those choices, even when they are not typical.
“The stereotypical view is that girls like to have control over people, and boys like to have control over things. I saw this play out with our own two children. For the girl, it started with her Barbies. For our boy, it started with his Thomas the Tank Engine phase.”
I… don’t get what you’re saying here. Is one of those toys a “thing” and the other a “person”? They both seem like highly anthropomorphized inanimate objects to me.
Captcrisis, we’re gonna expose our daughter to many things, some of which will surely be typical for her sex — and some not. She’ll have a chance to pick up a football and kick one too, she’ll be given a range of things and we will do our best (though it is nearly impossible to do perfectly) not to push her in one way or another. We won’t be disappointed if she ends up loving pink and girly things; we won’t be disappointed if she ends up more interested in taking things apart and playing in the mud. She’s a person, already, and will be shaped by many things — and will let us know, along the way, what it is she wants.
Hugo:
That’s good! Sounds about right.
I tried to be the same with my daughter. Though with my son I confess I didn’t introduce him to the world of dolls. I saw this as a gap that needed some thought. I hope it was a narrow omission.
MsAnon:
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. For my daughter, at least as I saw it, the Barbie universe involved a lot of interpersonal interactions — Barbie’s friends, her little sister (either Stacy or Kellie, I remember she kept changing), and boyfriends like Ken. For my son though, the Thomas the Tank Engine was the first of his interests in things mechanical.
My mom had at least 2 of each, and always, always claimed that neither girls nor boys were “easier” or “harder” to raise. One advantage of being the eldest of six was that it was obvious the differences between individuals counted far more than their sexes or genders. I wanted a girl first because my brother woulda stomped me flat without the 2yr head start, and I didn’t want the elder child to run roughshod over the younger. My spouse, otoh, loved having a baby sister, and was pretty gentle. I have two girls, and…the elder runs roughshod over the younger, cuz that’s the way their personalities roll. But I now love my brother; and they love each other. So my preferences obviously came out of my childhood baggage. And like Hugo, though I secretly pined for a girl first for the reasons explained above, once that baby was born, you better believe I just wanted *THAT BABY*.
One of the many wise things my mom said was that the most important thing for children was to love them; and may I say, these speculations about whether Hugo would be as good a parent to a boy just gross me out. He loves his daughter. He would love his son. He would even love a child that fell somewhere inbetween, as some indeed do. To say to a brand-new father that he wouldn’t or couldn’t love a child or rear it well is rude and appalling, even for someone as open as Hugo.
rant
And…my apologies for “even” above. Not because such a child would be less lovable, but because it would be painful for a loving parent, knowing the difficulties such a child would face.
*headdesk*
I doubt this damaged your son, but this is Exhibit A as to why the whole argument about what children “naturally” prefer is so ridiculous.
When my son was little, it never failed to amaze me how discomfited “progressive”, educated people got at seeing my son play tea party or dolls with his older sister. And it was even more amusing when the two of them graduated to Bionicles – which are really just dolls you make out of Legos – and played the same kinds of games with them. But they weren’t, you know, girly toys, so it was OK.
It’s not “amazing” at all that parents are discomfited when boys play with dolls. Tomboys are not sigmatized (and haven’t been for a long time). But boys who are into “girly” things come in for a lot of abuse.
You might say that it’s because of the patriarchy, i.e., female things are less valued. I would say that it’s simply another manifestation of the fact that boys have less options (part of the unfinished business of equality). I may not know *why* it is, I do know *that* it is.
Of course you know why it is. You just don’t like the answer because it reeks of feminism. (The horror!)
The amazement was not that girl things were stigmatized, but that the people who were getting twitchy claimed to be all progressive and stuff; the sort of people who would buy their girls Thomas the Tank Engine and tell her she could be President when she grew up if the wanted to.
I’ve always thought it was weird when people say they want to be “surprised” by the sex of their baby on the day of its birth. It’s still a surprise when you find out via ultrasound, so I don’t understand what’s spoiled when you find out ahead of birth. There are surely other surprises that come on the day of birth than the baby’s sex.
I only have sisters, and never really spent much time with boys when I was growing up, which has kind of left me feeling like I wouldn’t know what to do with a boy baby. Little boy culture doesn’t really seem like my scene, but a kid – girl or boy – would be enough of a change in my life that I’d be adjusting to new stuff all the time, regardless.
WELL Myth…I certainly didn’t the EE or the Lanky One dolls either…they each had the real thing. (Dunno if you remember the bottle nipple up the nose incident.)
Sir Galahad had to settle for nursing abandoned puppies and more usually…feral kittens after Mama cat was killed.
I get so tired of the assumption that boys are less nurturing than girls. Given the tender, devoted care all three of our boys gave the abused, emaciated, abandoned and injured animals that came our way over the years, I call BS.
Hugo: “Some folks laughed, and others looked confused, and a few — a very few — were genuinely offended by our lack of concern for the sex of our child.”
Weird.
Someone once told me that when she was pregnant, people would ask her about the baby’s gender. I don’t know if she actually knew or not, but she does share my glee for being an ass-pain, so conversations she had with others would often run thus:
“Do you know what you’re having yet?”
“Yeah, y’know, a baby, the usual…”
“Oh, no. I mean: are you having a boy or a girl?”
“Yes!”
Mythago: “It’s certainly true that our sexist culture drops a load of crap on boys as well as girls, but the notion that boys have it tough and girls have it easy is cringeworthy.”
Ev’ah’body got it bad, the way I see it.
“When my son was little, it never failed to amaze me how discomfited ‘progressive,’ educated people got at seeing my son play tea party or dolls with his older sister.”
I never had dolls, but many stuffed animals (you know, sythetic ones). None of them were ever thrown out, and many remain close to me. It’s all good. Some people need to learn what real problems are.
I’ve got both.
Both hold black belts, both are good shots with pistol and rifle (Though my boy is indifferent to hunting and can hot whatever he aims at, and my daughter likes it but can’t hit anything over 20 yards away outside a range), both can field dress a computer … oh, the whole Heinlein quote ending “Specialization is for insects.”
While my daughter completed her Masters in Pediatric Nursing, and my son is working on his in Library Science, neither has shared their old man’s penchant for the Middle Ages, nor for sport combat beyond my son’s fencing. They also failed to inherit my tendency to get in trouble, thank God. The Grandmother’s Curse didn’t stick on me.
(May you have two just like you!)
They did both inherit my Libertarian streak, my Taurus son quiet and stubborn and my Aries daughter loud and in your face. (You think I am opinionated? HAH!)
Wouldn’t trade either for the world.
Congrats again, Hugo. Thought I might beat you Grandpa to Father, but sadly my Daughter miscarried just after Hallowe’en; Wouldn’t have been late March or thereabouts anyways.
Gonz, so sorry for your daughter’s loss.
And sometimes it’s a surprise anyway. Ultrasound isn’t perfect.
ahunt, you probably remember the story when Kid Peligro was a toddler and a slightly older boy almost ran over him (carelessness, not malice). His mom stopped him and warned him “Remember, big boys don’t hurt babies; big boys protect babies.” I thought that was one of the smartest things I’d heard from a parent in a long time; teaching her son that he didn’t have to choose between being strong and being good.
Mythago, that’s a great line, and I will steal it.
Gonz, my condolences as well to you and your daughter and her family.
As for waiting to be surprised, part of it was also doing as little as possible to anticipate what this child would be like. We wanted to meet our baby as an individual person rather than as the embodiment of all our expectations; it also dissuaded some unnecessary gift-giving from relatives!
Sounds like a good plan.
Gonz, I’m also sorry to read your news.
Mythago: good story. Is Kid Peligro someone you know?
Kid Peligro is my son, who I assure you earned the nickname
Ah…yo comprendo.
Gonz…sincere sympathy.
MWT, right Myth…?
Missed this one…but it is a wonderful experience, and will be shared, as widely as opportunity permits.
Glad to know Danger Boy is intact. Any stitches/broken bones lately?
Seriously, it is a simple, lovely point no one can dispute…boys are as compassionate as we both allow and encourage them to be.