I’ve got a four-hour layover at Heathrow. Why not blog?
I got an email last week from “Jake”:
I was very much attracted to your blog writings on Older Men and Younger Women as this issue has always been on my mind. I am a 25 yr old guy, and for quite some time, I often find myself attracted to 16-18 yr old girls. As I find the age gap to still be too big (university graduate vs. high school almost graduate), I would very much like to not be attracted to girls that age, but it seems like I cannot just turn it off. None of this will matter to me once the girls hit 20, but I am wondering what to do about it now as it is difficult for me to ignore such an attraction and wanting the friendship. Any advice on what should be done here?
There’s quite a bit to unpack in Jake’s short note. First off, I think it’s commendable that he realizes that the age gap of 25 and 16 is “too big”; if only more men Jack’s age (and older) realized the same. And I suspect that Jack can self-regulate, knowing that his desires are not irresistible imperatives. On the other hand, he’s troubled by the desires themselves, and that’s a bit trickier.
I’ve regularly made the case that we have the capacity to transform ourselves and reshape our libidos; I’ve argued consistently that our sexual identities are more fluid and more malleable than we like to believe. Most folks think that’s a sound argument when it comes to suggesting, as I do (and in a moment, will again) when we’re talking about redirecting sexual attraction away from someone with whom the age gap is too great. Ideologically, the danger of this argument is that it dovetails a bit too neatly with the religious right’s view that homosexuality can be “cured”. I’m not interested in revisiting that issue, save to say that I’ve always believed that the case against so-called “reparative therapy” for gays and lesbians is not that it can’t work, but that it tries to fix something that isn’t broken. (My objections are on the grounds of ethics, not efficacy.) And with that out of the way, let me get back to Jake’s question.
First of all, Jake needs to see that he lives in a culture which works very hard to condition him to see girls of 16 and 17 as being at the pinnacle of desirability. Pornography, which he may or may not view, has long had as one of its most lucrative niches the so-called “barely legal” sector, featuring young women of 18 or 19 who look two or three years younger. The modeling industry tends to develop superstars when they are that age. One notes that Ringo Starr was in his mid-thirties when he had a major hit with “You’re Sixteen, You’re Beautiful, and You’re Mine.” And though the arrest once again of Roman Polanski has demonstrated an admirable move towards a greater recognition of the damage done to teen girls by older males (many have pointed out how far we’ve come from the more predatory Seventies), courts can’t quickly undo the toxic fetishization of adolescent girls.
Jake isn’t a victim — adults are volunteers, children are victims — but he can acknowledge that his sexual desires have been shaped by an unhealthy culture. Those who misunderstand evolutionary psychology like to suggest that it’s “natural” for older men to be drawn to teen girls because of fertility issues, ignoring the reality that for many 16 and 17 year-olds, pregnancies are often much higher-risk than they will be a few years later. Claims of “biological imperatives” are nothing more than prurience hiding behind the cloak of science. Yet the influence of popular culture is real — and Jake has been raised to see teen girls as the zenith of desirability. It’s not easy to undo that programming, but it’s certainly possible.
Part of what Jake also needs to see is that, as I’ve pointed out many times before, the attraction to the very young is part of a fear of dealing with the demands of adult women. Teenage girls may appear sexually mature, and they may have very real libidos. But despite their not-infrequent claims to the contrary, the overwhelming majority of adolescents don’t have a very good understanding of their own inner terrain. Though they imagine that they are exceptionally intuitive (many young women who do have sexual relationships with older men overestimate their own maturity), few 17 year-olds have the vocabulary and the experience and the courage to engage as an equal with an older guy. And they almost invariably don’t have nearly as developed a “bullshit detector”. Teenagers wear cynicism as an affectation — their naiveté is always there, concealed behind truculence or feigned apathy or ironic detachment or sexual assertiveness. Bottom line: women Jake’s age will be much clearer on what they want; girls of 16 or 17 will be much more eager to please and have a much harder time setting boundaries and limits with someone they care for. And though Jake might not like to consider it so, there’s no question that for a great many men, the sexual fascination with much younger women lies in the not-entirely-incorrect assumption that they will be less demanding and easier to manipulate than their older sisters.
Bottom line: I am convinced that three factors drive men’s fascination with teenage girls. One is a culture which views adolescent females as being at the apex of desirability — and teaches men that younger women are status symbols in the eyes of their male peers. Second of all, a great many men find that the “emotional intelligence” gap between themselves and their female peers is frighteningly vast. A man in his mid-twenties may find that women his age want to have serious discussions with him about feelings. Young girls may find male silence to be sexy, imagining that all sorts of rich and wonderful thoughts are going through the heads of the guys whom they long for. (And many of these girls flatter themselves that they will be “the ones” to whom their beaux will, for the first time, open up.) Older women know better — they are much less likely to eroticize inarticulateness! And third, a not-insignificant number of men are angry at women their own age. They complain that their peers are too demanding, or too aggressive, or too needy (or not needy enough). The anger may also be linked to sexual insecurity; women their own age are much more likely to have experience with other lovers to whom a man imagines he might be compared.
How much simpler, how much more flattering to the self-image, how much less stressful to pursue someone younger, less sure of herself, less demanding of conversation! Teenagers are likelier to confuse taking off one’s clothes with actual intimacy; they often don’t know that getting naked doesn’t mean “getting naked.” Is there any wonder, Jake, that you — and a great many men like you — long for younger women?
Perhaps Jake will find the kind of women to whom he is attracted changes organically. Some of us are lucky that way, as I wrote in this 2006 post. He may also find that if he works on his own anxieties (which are surely there) about ageing, about responsibility, about growing up, his longings may start to shift. Above all, if he works on forming friendships (not necessarily dating relationships) with women his own age, he can begin to develop more confidence about his ability to be intimate and vulnerable with others. And if the experience of many of my friends who have been in similar positions is any indication, Jake may discover to his happy surprise that his libido changes as he does. I wish him, and others like him, the best of luck. And I wish that more men his age were as conscientious about not sexualizing those not yet old enough to vote.
how do you know the mind of a teenage girl so well? i agree, at 16, 17-i felt more mature than high school boys and desperately wished for an older guy to “discover” me or some bull like that.
most of the time i think it’s not fair when a guy chooses a younger girl over one his age because it’ll be “easier.” it’s such a cop out and to add insult to injury, the names we get called just for having experience. “harpy” “nag” “slut” not to mention how unfair it is to assume that just because a girl is younger, means she is more malleable or “customizable”. they’re smart too-they might not be able to detect bullshit immediately-but they learn faster and gain a more intense dating lesson with those older lazy cop out men.
I don’t have much of an opinion either way about the subject of this post, but I would like to know why you think sexual preferences can be significantly changed and on what you base that assertion. My own experiences with and studies of sexuality indicate to me that sexuality is fluid for everyone, but within certain bounds — most people have things they can’t change (for some, this is which gender they’re attracted to; for others, it’s certain fetishes; a lot of BDSMers feel that our tendencies are largely innate; etc). You mention in the post that you’ve gone over this before and don’t feel like going over it again — which is fine, I guess, but I’d like to know where you’ve gone over it before.
Hugo,
“I’m not interested in revisiting that issue, save to say that I’ve always believed that the case against so-called “reparative therapy†for gays and lesbians is not that it can’t work, but that it tries to fix something that isn’t broken. (My objections are on the grounds of ethics, not efficacy.)”
Sorry, Hugo, but you can’t just throw that out there and then not become a bit more specific – you think that you can talk people out of their sexual orientation? That sexual orientation is actually a choice (not to say chosen “lifetyle”) – that *you* could decide to become homosexual by choice (I don’t doubt you could technically do *it*, but that’s a bit different from deciding to be sexually attracted to men, in your case, don’t you think???).
Btw, evolutionary psychologists, all other questions/problems aside, do not argue for male attraction to teenage girls, they argue that men are most attracted to women in their early twenties, probably due to the reason you mention.
“Part of what Jake also needs to see is that, as I’ve pointed out many times before, the attraction to the very young is part of a fear of dealing with the demands of adult women.”
I am not so sure I agree with this. I might agree, if he said he could not find women his own age attractive. I think the important point is that he said he can’t turn it off.
When I was 12, I was attracted to 12 and 13 year olds. I also had a crush on my teacher. She was probably 26. I could not imagine really being attracted to an “adult.” As I got older, I probably still remain attracted to people who are 16-18, but I have little interest in them. And, while my 26 year old teacher will always seem “old” to me, 26 year olds are almost too young for me now. And, I don’t know when I would have ever imagined dating someone in her 30′s.
I guess my point is that you are right that attraction can be a maaleable thing, but I would be more concerned about him (and it would illustrate your point better) if his attraction did not expand as he aged. Legal issues aside, being attracted to 16-18 year olds is not bad in itself (because we can all remember when we were). And, that attraction may never go away; we should just hope it matures.
-Jut
I think one issue here is that we don’t distinguish between “nice to look at” attractive and “want to have sexy time with” attractive. (Being such a media-driven culture doesn’t help things.)
Ha, I have the opposite problem. I’ve always been attracted to older men. Luckily it hasn’t reached the over 10 year mark. Although there are some who have hot brains…that’s usually where the attraction ends. As being someone who entered in a relationship with someone 8 years older than her at 17, all I can say is that what Hugo said seems pretty spot on.
Kudos to you Jake for realizing these girls are too young for you. Regardless of how “mature” they seem to be.
Picking up on Clarisse & Sam’s points, I think there’s a lot of evidence that ex-gay therapy also doesn’t work, for many or most people, in the sense of a real change in one’s desires, as opposed to behavior control. Sadly, this is also true for many pedophiles, which is why we see the push for sex-offender registries and other permanent quarantine measures (whether or not these work). So I question whether Hugo’s experience of malleable desire is generalizable to everyone.
I agree completely that our culture unhealthily fetishizes young girls. In addition to your three suggested motivations, could it be that men are looking for women who seem gentle, hopeful, not yet jaded and hardened, but the vulgarity and aggressiveness of our current cultural ideas of “sexiness” make many women lose that innocent affect at ever younger ages? I’m not talking about some patriarchal idea of purity but simply a wholesome and refreshing quality that gets lost too early, for both boys and girls.
Jake doesn’t say he only finds himself attracted to girls in their late teens, just that he often does, and (essentially) he’s convinced it’s morally wrong.
Maybe, maybe not. I suspect nothing can be done about it, only recognise that it’s not appropriate to act on it, then don’t act on it. Jake’s also attracted to women who’re twenty or older, so it shouldn’t be a big loss for him to just not pursue relationships with girls who’re too young.
It’s not the the difference of nine years is “too many;” it’s that a 25-year-old is a legal adult and a 16-year-old is a minor. If it were a 45-year-old in a relationship with a 36-year-old, that would be rather different.
bmmg39
The kids on the street usually quote an ethical rule of half your age plus seven. By which 45 year olds can date 30 to 76 year olds. The legality ain’t the key criterion. It’s legal for me as a twenty-eight year old to have sex with a sixteen year old; doesn’t mean it’s a good or ethical thing to do. (Jurisdictions will vary, of course) An eighteen year old is a legal adult, doesn’t mean fifty-sometimes should be propositioning them.
You’re Sixteen was written by The Sherman Brothers of Mary Poppins fame and was a hit for rockabilly star Johnny Burnette in 1960 at the age of Twenty Six. Ringo covered it in 1973. You call yourself a historian. Leave my Beatles out of this.
BTW, have you ever said anywhere in this blog why homosexuality is not problematic and not in need of a cure (which you know I agree with)? As a Christian, I’m particularly curious how you conclude that despite lines in both testaments that conclude that it is. I need an argument next time anyone says that to me. If you’ve got a link I’d love to see it.
One thing you also don’t mention is how at one point in history certain biological imperatives made more sense. It makes more sense to be attracted to a sixteen year old when you’re going to die at thirty.
I was a teenage girl a few years ago, and you’re absolutely right about how they think of themselves and their relationships with older men. My experiences with associating with and dating older men collaborates your assessment of their motives, namely that they are looking for someone naive and easy to manipulate.
“And though Jake might not like to consider it so, there’s no question that for a great many men, the sexual fascination with much younger women lies in the not-entirely-incorrect assumption that they will be less demanding and easier to manipulate than their older sisters.”
I like this because it’s quite literally true in my case. There were several guys I was interested in who ended up pursuing my younger sister for what amounted to those exact reasons (I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard “You’re too opinionated”).
I don’t see how “gentle” and “hopeful” doesn’t mean “naive” and “virginal,” but then, I’m one of those “jaded” and “hardened” older women.
Wow, I can’t believe there are still people who believe being gay is a choice. That is such a primative perspective, IMHO.
Um, I think that there is a social facination with the older man/younger woman or girl dynamic. But we must remind ourselves that relationships between older women/younger men or boys happen all the time, too. They are just less publicized and exploited, and even seen as being like a cool thing, i.e. the beautiful school teacher and her boy student.
It’s no different, but as a society we are facinated by older males’ relationships with younger women. It boils down to a facination with power. Older men are generally perceived as the most powerful entities in society where young women are, again generally, seen as the weakest. If a young woman can exercise power over an older male, there is a real attraction and facination in that for people, I believe. The problem is those types of relationships have sometimes lots of room for abuse.
Funt, I recommend the books “Openly Gay, Openly Christian” by Samuel Kader, and “What God Has Joined Together: The Christian Case for Gay Marriage” by David G. Myers & Letha Dawson Scanzoni, for a good introduction to affirming interpretations of the Bible.
Marissa, sorry you took my comments amiss. I don’t think the jadedness factor has to correlate with age or number of partners. It just seems to me that the culture has gotten nastier in general, compelling both boys and girls to put up a hard shell at a younger age. What we now think of as pretty or sexy, compared to previous generations, also reflects this hardening, IMHO.
As a woman of 40, I find myself attracted to the beauty of men/boys in their late teens (sometimes women too, a fact that can take me by suprise), and I appreciate how beautiful younger boys are too. I think that’s ok. I am also attracted to men who are older than this – men of all ages, in fact – I think David Attenborough is hot, hot, hot at 72, but just like the teen boys I also realise that admiration and appreciation do not always translate well into relationships when the age gap is so cavernous. I look for someone I can really share my life with for relationships. We can appreciate whoever we wich I guess – the young waiters near my work remind me of my boyfriend when I was their age, they’re lovely!
I’m not sure f this is the kind of attraction that ‘Jake’ can’t switch off, or if he feels exclusively attracted to young girls, but if it’s the latter then I think that’s ok, why should he turn it off? If the former then I think he has problems, probably needs to mature himself, which he almost certainly will if he cares enough to write to Hugo about this whole thing.
I meant former just then, not latter. Sorry for confusion.
These posts deal with the issue of scripture and sexuality: http://hugoschwyzer.net/category/sexual-ethics-and-christian-faith-series/
I’ve known “ex-gay” folks, and “ex-ex-gay” folks. My own experience of sexuality as malleable, and my many conversations with people who have been surprised by the shifts they’ve experienced in their sexuality (sometimes as the result of therapy, sometimes not, sometimes towards same-sex attraction and sometimes away) leads me to believe that we are on firm ground when we say to the reparative therapy folks that it doesn’t matter whether it works or not, what matters is that it attempts to cure something that isn’t actually an illness. “Why try?” is a more effective argument than “It won’t work”, in my opinion.
Jake didn’t say that he’s only attracted to 16-18 year olds, or that he finds women his own age unattractive, at least not in the excerpt you posted. If he’s finding teenage girls attractive but doesn’t act on it and has no problem being attracted to women in his own age range, I don’t see that as an enormous problem. There’s a big difference between Predatory Pop-Evo-Bio Guy, and looking at an attractive 17-year-old and thinking “Nice, but I’ll wait for her older sister.”
Yeah, it’s a crying shame about all those hardened, jaded twenty-somethings out there (??). Give me a break – any man past his early 20s who needs to date teens because they’re more “gentle” is living in a state of complete self-delusion. Since when are 25 year old women taking to the streets with hardened glares & Mad max weaponry?? What they ARE doing is forming opinions, setting boundaries and developing the kind of self-esteem that threatens the type of men who need to screw children to feel like real men.
Thank you Jendi and Hugo. And Hugo, Ringo forgives you.
As people here have pointed out, If you’re over 18, finding yourself attracted to under-18′s, then there’s that whole legality thing. Jake seems to get this, so I don’t think he really has any kind of problem. Recognizing a very young girl is beautiful doesn’t mean you’re about to go all Polanski on her. I see teen hotties all the time, but I still recognize they’re, you know, teens. Duh.
At 43, I’m pretty much attracted to women who meet my taste in beauty, which, as anyone who’s had a look at Jennifer Aniston lately, ought to know is not an exclusive attribute of the 20-somethings. But it does mean that I’m no less likely to pursue a beautiful (in my mind) 25-year-old than I am a 40-year-old. Once you’re over 18, and especially over 21, you’re an adult period, and from then on, bringing up age gaps is just more cultural shaming, if you ask me. Though I will agree that any person who exclusively pursues much, much younger partners for the sole reason that they have something weird to prove is Doin It Rong.
I’ve read your posts you’ve linked to. Part two is perhaps a life saver for me. I like your overall stance on sexual ethics but even so I was hoping to read something specifically about homosexuality. Unless of course the point is that if sex falls under the guidelines you speak of then such a distinction need not be made.
Ever heard the version of the song that goes like this?
You’re Sixteen
You’re Jailbait
I’ll Do Time
18 is an artificial dividing line. It’s actually the conservative right that has been so vocal in keeping it the age of consent in many states. As the country becomes more diverse, it will start to be lowered. The actual science on the brain seems to indicate that we’re fully cooked at age 25. It’s unfortunate that puberty is hitting girls so much earlier than it used to. The body is out of sync with the mind. It appears that our super-sized, couch potato lifestyles are bringing early puberty to girls and delaying it for boys.
I essentially agree with your post and my experiences also collaborates your assessment of their motives, chiefly that they’re looking for someone naive and easy to manipulate. Sorry to say that I’ve had a lot of experience dealing with the inappropriate attentions of men seeking relationships with much younger women. Gavin de Becker made many insightful observations about predatory manipulators in his book.
Ditto for Brian’s insightful comment, “An eighteen year old is a legal adult, doesn’t mean fifty-sometimes should be propositioning them.”
I was always attracted to boys/men closer to my own age, but was constantly pursued by men much older and I heard every line imagineable. There was always something creepy about it too and I never trusted the dynamics, despite having friends who did get involved. There was always an imbalance of power in those relationships.
I can’t imagine having or even the possibility of developing a healthy relationship with a man whose obsessive focus is all on the basis of my physical beauty, youth or age–that reduces me to a thing or an object, not something that ever feels good. I never wanted that and I’ve spent a lot of my time trying to protect myself from people with that focus.
CaseyDancer: “Give me a break – any man past his early 20s who needs to date teens because they’re more ‘gentle’ is living in a state of complete self-delusion. Since when are 25 year old women taking to the streets with hardened glares & Mad max weaponry?? What they ARE doing is forming opinions, setting boundaries and developing the kind of self-esteem that threatens the type of men who need to screw children to feel like real men.”
I’m not an advocate for thirtysomething men or women going out with teenagers, but you’re crossing a line into Straw Argument Territory here.
Once you’re over 18, and especially over 21, you’re an adult period, and from then on, bringing up age gaps is just more cultural shaming, if you ask me.
That’s kind of a convenient way of avoiding any discussion of power dynamics and sexism in relationships. Not to mention, setting any shaming aside, a realistic look at how age differences do affect relationships, even when both parties have the best of intentions.
You know I just realized that McCartney still sings, ‘she was just seventeen, you know what I mean’ and even when he first sang it he was in his twenties. You’re right, they’re creeps.
(I know I’m milking it)
As a 26 year old woman, I have found that few men my age or younger have much capacity for appreciating me as I am (strong-willed, self-assured).
I think men (and women, I’m sure) do tend to change when they get older and also more self-assured. Men in their early 30s seem to be much easier to be with. Both of my boyfriends are 33.
What I’m trying to say is that I suspect “Jake” will get there on his own. The fact that he notices it is a good sign.
I’m glad my sense of attractiveness is correlated strongly to mental attractiveness, though! My men are lovely, six-packs be damned.
“Both” of your boyfriends?
Oh, c’mon. Surely it cannot be shocking to you that people who are not married have more than one non-committed relationship at a time.
I wonder how many girlfriends her boyfriends have. Hope they’re using protection.
Sure, Mythago. I saw it in a movie once.
No, Elizabeth, I am sure they are all rutting carelessly like pigs. Everybody knows that proper dating means dating one (1) and only one (1) person from the time you wish them ‘goodnight’ on the first date until the moment you dump them for somebody else.
Mythago, from previous conversations I know you don’t see it that way. What I am trying to tell you is that many people do.
Folks, let’s stop the thread drift. BMMG39, Maggie’s point stood as it was, and it didn’t need to devolve into a discussion about her dating practices (save for the discussion about age). This isn’t a post about the relative merits of monogamy, polyamory, and so forth, so let’s get back to the topic at hand. My apologies to Maggie for not catching it sooner.
Speaking as a man in my 40′s, what if I essentially share nothing in common with most single women my age?
A few examples:
- I’ve never been married ( 17 years in two LTR, both ended happily )
- I am very liberal in my social, political, and spiritual views.
- Physically I can do everything I could do 20 years ago. I have longevity from both parents. ( everybody makes it to 100 ) I have no medical conditions. I have a lean body, no wrinkles, and no grey hair. I have a very high energy level, and strong libido.
Generally I find it very difficult to find a single woman my age that I have anything in common with, and finding someone who is in good physical shape is close to impossible. ( the few that I do meet are long time married )
So I tend to find greatest compatibility with women 10+ years younger than me. ( our mind-set and interests are much closer, physically we are in synch, etc… )
Physically I can do everything I could do 20 years ago. I have longevity from both parents. ( everybody makes it to 100 ) I have no medical conditions. I have a lean body, no wrinkles, and no grey hair. I have a very high energy level, and strong libido.
Not that I’m available, being married, but most of this is actually true of me as well. It’s true that if I look closely I can see a few gray hairs mixed among the brown, and there are a couple of wrinkles in my forehead, but I’ve made it to my late 40s with no medical conditions, a high energy level, the same libido I had thirty years ago, and, though not everyone in my family makes it to 100, some do, and the only grandparent who actually died young died young because he was killed in WWII. Most men I know my age are actually less fit than I am.
I’m not convinced that healthy women in their 40s are “close to impossible” to find.
(On the other hand, I don’t have anything against either men or women in their 40s dating people a decade younger; people in their 30s are plenty old enough for me not to worry about them being exploited by older lovers.)
That’s kind of a convenient way of avoiding any discussion of power dynamics and sexism in relationships. Not to mention, setting any shaming aside, a realistic look at how age differences do affect relationships, even when both parties have the best of intentions.
If there is sexism or any kind of power imbalance in a relationship, then that relationship should end. If age differences are affecting a relationship, then that relationship should end. If they aren’t affecting the relationship, then it shouldn’t. How much discussion does there need to be?
Eugene – c’mon. If you like dating younger women. That’s your business. But constructing artificial reasons why, golly gosh, you’d just love to date single 40-somethings but can’t, makes you sound as though you’re slightly embarassed about your preferences.
Never married? Assuming you’re in the US, for women the average (median) age of first marriage is around 25, so women 10+ years younger than you who are never-married are also likely to be married already, or divorced. I’m really not sure where you get the liberal thing from. As for physical shape, finding a woman of any age who has all grandparents live to 100 is going to be close to impossible, and “medical conditions”, while they are more common in mid- to late middle age, are hardly absent in women in their 30s or even their 20s.
Eugene–I second the c’mon!
I’m not sure where you get the liberal thing from either, unless you’re suggesting that you’re sexually liberal and whatever that means. Come to think of it, in my vast experience of the other sex I’ve had a lot of encounters with so called “sexually liberal” males (even college professors) trying to convince, (basically manipulate me) into having sex with them for all sorts of reasons/lines. Come to think of it they see themselves as “open” and I suppose me as “closed” –that’s always the inference, since I’m just naturally skeptical. And then if I reject their advances I’m labeled a “conservative” or worse yet, “little miss innocent” and goody-two shoes. These same men also like to throw at me that I’m very opinionated.
My observation is that they have a set of criteria (age, looks, weight, etc.) and an agenda–they want to get laid. What I think and how I feel is not on their agenda. Their focus is all about them and always on the physical. It’s all about their issues and what they think and what they feel, if they’re even aware of that at all. Of course, I’m hardened, cynical, weary, etc….and blah, blah, blah. Accuse away!
I’m also certain that there are a lot of women close to your own age who would fit the description that you provide of yourself–they are just NOT on your radar for whatever reasons you construct.
I agree with Mythago’s astute observations. What you wrote sounds like you are slightly embarassed about your preferences or you’re trying to find a way to rationalize them. The bigger question here then is why.
This reminds me of a line from a movie, “You’re only as old as the breasts that you feel.”
Wow, could I have crammed more typos into my post? Should have been that women 10+ years younger who AREN’T never-married, etc.
Hah, yes, I am not monogamous. No one involved has a problem with this, I’m not sure why random people on the internet care!
To some extent or another, every relationship has both of these things. So this idea is rather hard to sell.
I fit Eugene’s description – only I have a few gey hairs, but so do some of my freinds in their 20s. I feel way more liberated, open and spiritual than I did in my 20s and am having the best time of my life so far in every way, including sexually – and I expect it to keep rolling and get much much better. I’m single and 40, never married – so glad I didn’t.
Eugene, I would offer you my phone number, but I have enough wisdom, at this middle age, to smell a youngy chaser at a thousand paces – I’ll leave you to the young girls, hopefully fending you off won’t be too painful for them. I think, Eugene, if you looked hard enough he’d find your equal, but it’s a matter of really wanting to, I think.
I wonder if an older man who’s attracted to teenagers is someone who just never grew up–he was attracted to teenagers when he was one himself, and he still is. Perhaps he’s got issues that never got resolved, and he’s been trying to find the same kind of girl (not woman) since his adolescence. But as he gets older, he does use an adult’s sophistication to put pressure on very young women. Maybe that works, and maybe it doesn’t.
And let’s not be so heteronormative. It’s not politically correct to point this out, but it’s not much of a secret that there tends to be a strong push among gay men to find younger partners. I don’t think there’s any such effort with lesbians, though. I don’t quite know the significance of this. Dominance, again? And women don’t want to do it?
As far as evolutionary biology goes, I think one reason that throughout history and around the globe, women were married off early comes down to two words–paternity certainty. The older a woman gets, the less likely a man can be absolutely and positively sure that he is the father of any offspring she has. In some cultures, women are promised in marriage to men even as girls, or are married off even if sex does not happen right away.
The ideal was likely for a woman to be promised/married before puberty, for this reason.
This is a load ‘o crap. This guy wanting to “turn off” his attraction to attractive younger women is like saying he wants to “turn off” his desire to breathe or eat to accommodate a brand of political correctness. The reality is men are attracted to young females because they’re attractive.
Invoking Roman Polanski is misdirection. Manipulation and rape is wrong no matter what someone’s age.
“The culture and society” my ass. Fresh complexions, lithe, fit bodies as yet unravaged by gravity and sun damage. Not to mention perkiness of persona. I mean, ewww, who likes that?? Being attracted to that is as normal as the desire of many young teens to be *seen* as attractive. Battles over modesty of dress of teen girls is nothing new. Don’t ‘spose it could be because a very normal
part of their hardwiring is motivating them to “be sexy”?
You see some girl in a bikini walk by, I’m sure the first thing that goes through your mind is – “hmmm, how well read is she?”
For me “perkiness of persona” is a fine reason not to date women who lack the, for want of a better word, gravitas, that comes with having lived a little.
I think, Brian, you are making the fundamental error of thinking that what is attractive for you is universally attractive.
If I see a young woman in a bikini walk by it may trigger my lizard brain*, but just as likely it might remind me of my daughters and turn my thoughts to wondering how they are doing.
* which thankfully doesn’t rule me (see the myth of male weakness0.
Randomizer said “..If I see a young woman in a bikini walk by it may trigger my lizard brain..”
Translation: *you’re attracted to pretty young women*.
Everything else you’ve said here, such as trying to demean and dismiss this fact by attributing it to a crude, base urge is all a clumsy dodge (PC/feminist brownie points for you) to cover up the fact of what you’ve admitted – that just like the guy referenced by the article, *you’re attracted to pretty young women”.
Going by your logic, you can’t “allow” yourself to be attracted to women closer to your own age either because they might remind you of your (real or theoretical) sister.
I agree with Scott. Trying to force yourself not to be attracted to younger women simply because some people believe it is the right thing to do, is forcing political correctness where it does not belong.